"INTERVIEW: Okolugbo Claims ADC is Full of Tinubu Critics"

Mr Ken Okolugbo is a public affairs analyst. In this interview with DAILY POST, he examines the mass defections into the APC, President Tinubu’s reform policies, as well as the possible impact of the ADC in the 2027 election. Excerpts!

There have been concerns about the way the current Senate stamps everything from the president, including loan requests? The loan requests were all approved…does that augur well for Nigeria?

As a public affairs analyst, I will tell you that those loan requests, what people were missing was that those loan requests were already part of what was in the budget. That was the thing. You see, communication matters a lot. A lot of people would not have known, because when you bring a budget, a budget is not, it’s a working document. So the budget is such that when you present the budget, you have what you call recurrent capital. And you have a deficit, budget deficit. For example, you say budget 2025, I think the deficit was 13 trillion.

How do you fund the N13 trillion? Are you understanding? It was an ambitious budget, because it was a 55 trillion budget. We’ve never had a budget that was 55 trillion. And so the only way you can fund it is through a loan.

And so those loan requests you’re talking of were loans that had been embedded in the budget. It’s just that by the time the budget is being implemented, the request will now come. So it’s something that they have already approved, but they are approving it on principle.

And so when it comes, you’re like, where is this one coming from now? These people are not tired? So it is for a proper budget breakdown to be done.

So are you comfortable with the way your party, the APC is running the country?

Well, to be honest, everybody would agree that I was a spokesperson for the Presidential Campaign Council in the PDP. And as a spokesperson for the Presidential Campaign Council for the PDP, I was on the other side against Buhari up until the end of his government. So I will be very honest with you, I never compromised my principles.

One of the things that attracted me to eventually becoming a member of the APC, when I left the PDP in 2022, I didn’t join the APC. I only joined the APC after Bola Ahmed Tinubu became the President. It’s because of the policies of President Bola Tinubu. It’s because of what I know of the government of Bola Tinubu. That was what attracted me to join the APC. And I must tell you honestly, he took a lot of bold steps.

For a first-time President to have removed subsidy as he was being sworn in, and left the Naira to the variables of the market forces…

He opposed it as an opposition leader, so why take the decision now?

Oh, certainly he opposed the removal of subsidy. But he did not oppose leaving the Naira to the variables of the market forces. But you see, like you rightly said, you cannot remove subsidy and leave the Naira and peg the Naira. If you remove subsidy, it follows that the Naira will have to be left to be determined by the variances of the market forces. And so, all we had was direct sale and direct purchase.

On the issue of subsidy, they tell you that, oh, they’re selling crude and they’re actually giving us petrol. But it was being completely mismanaged. It was a fraud in the system. It was to the extent that you can see the rots that went on in the Buhari administration. When some of us were crying then, they said we were just crying more than the bereaved because we all wanted to play bad politics, that we were the wailing wailers.

If you remember very well, that was our title, the wailing wailers. I know if I did not have any programme, I had more than a hundred media outings, during Buhari’s time, in all the different stations to speak about his economic policies that we did not agree with. To speak about the decadence in the system that was such as talking about ways and means, printing over N30 trillion.

And you know, Tinubu, I must tell you, it takes a bold president to accept that I’m in a party, I’m in the APC, but the last APC government failed in a lot of ways. And that is the reality of what he’s taking care of. Is it the fight against corruption? Are you not seeing what is happening today? The amount of corruption that went on in Buhari’s era. And the anti-corruption is up.

You can see the amount of recoveries to the extent that we now have a full-fledged investment given to the federal government by the EFCC. We have over 753 houses given to the Ministry of Housing by the EFCC. What am I trying to say? I’m just looking at the facts that Nigerians have refused to see. Yes, the economy is such that we are going through a lot in terms of prices of food and goods and services. That could not have been avoided because of the removal of subsidy.

So that question should be looked at from different perspectives, not just one perspective of this suffering that is being experienced.

There is still this feeling that the FCC is doing selective justice. There are some who believe the way the Yahaya Bello case was handled is different from the way the Malami case is being handled…

I believe what is happening here is that Yahaha Bello has been charged to two different courts. He is in the FCT court and he is in the Federal High Court. I know that case very closely. And if you have charged him to two different courts, how many of our politically exposed persons we see are facing different counts in two different courts and these cases are being pursued by no other person but a Senior Advocate of Nigeria, Kemi Pinheioro, who has a track record of not compromising. The EFCC has been using him for their cases. You can say that these are lawyers that have their thick and thin and are not lawyers that you can compromise.

The courts, the judiciary should be put on trial. The judiciary has to be put on trial because what is happening is they should have special courts for the EFCC. I have advocated for it and I’m going to carry out an advocacy on it. If we don’t have special courts for the EFCC to try corruption cases and politically exposed persons, you will find that these things will be a recurring decimal. The only cases that we have been able to succeed with have been Joshua Dare and the Taraba man, Darius Ishaku.

Those are the only two we can talk of now. But now you can see not only is Bello facing trial, the likes of Malami, the likes of Ngige. Who is of the ruling party. Malami was just of the ruling party lately. Ahmed Sirika is still of the ruling party.

And if you look at Malami’s case, Malami has been released on bail but has been re-arrested by the DSS. Now does it not shock you that a former attorney general, a chief custodian of our democracy, of law, a man whose position is only one of the few positions that the constitution provides, who can file for prosecution, who can discontinue any criminal case without any explanation and can take you to court, can amass, allegedly, amass this amount of wealth that he cannot explain.

And there are a lot of more people who are going to face trials very soon. Look at the amount of cases that have been taken to court.

So that’s my own thinking. They also have their shortcomings. I believe they should do a lot in terms of, they’re not doing enough in terms of carrying out programmes of awareness so that people can understand that when you steal, when you commit crime, you go in for it. Because when you prevent it, it’s better than going through the process of having to get a lawyer, having to go to court, having to do this, having to do that. And the law processes, with the kind of things that they have done so far, we should be able to say they’re doing quite well.

You acknowledged that even though the government is doing well, the masses are still suffering…Don’t you think that that’s enough fertile ground for the opposition in 2027?

No, because you know why, I think it’s not enough? Because the challenges could not have been helped. You also have got to see that my former party, the PDP, also has had their fair share in contributing to the present state we also find ourselves. So you just can’t blame the last government of Buhari. Without the bold step being taken by the same APC in correcting those errors, you see, we could have become Venezuela.

The company tax has reduced to 25%. There is the ombudsman that makes it impossible for you to go on double taxation. We are having problems in terms of security. So we cannot go into the field to produce food products as we used to. Benin and Plateau used to be said to be the food basket of the nation. And now they say they cannot beat their chest to say they are still the food basket of the nation. But we are able to produce what we can eat. We are still producing what we can eat. Look at the FADAMA project of Buhari, it was a failure. That’s the CBN. Those were the things we condemned. And at the end of the day, this government was bold enough to cancel the FADMA project.

They said they were doing the pilot scheme in 13 states. They gave loans to people who just got married, new wives, instead of actually implementing the rice revolution.

So we must also tell ourselves the bold truth. Brent crude is selling at $67. What is the benchmark of your purchase? It’s about $75. So as long as it is selling less than what is your benchmark you will have a deficit. So tell me what magic is the opposition going to do? Are they going to go and change the price of Brent crude? Also the amount of theft has been reduced to the extent that we are now producing 1.8 million barrels. And we have never produced 1.8 million barrels a day. And look at the indices and facts, those are the things I’m relying on.

Yes, they are suffering, it will be completely stupid if you want to deny that. But when you put money in the pockets of the people, you lubricate the economy.

That’s what the common man wants. He wants money to be put in his pocket. But don’t depend alone on giving out palliatives.

So, certainly, these policies will be felt. Don’t forget that this government is two and a half years, going to three years. Do you understand? But it took a whole, the first whole year. I mean, that Tinubu did not resign or run away, it shows he had a lot of guts. Remember how Naira was- it was almost 1,900 to a dollar.

I mean, it was horrible, it was unbearable. Even those who speak for him would not have been able to speak for him. But look at where we are currently.

Do you see ADC as a threat to the APC in 2027?

ADC will be a challenge if Peter Obi becomes the presidential candidate. I will be deceiving anybody if I say it will not be a challenge with Peter Obi on the ballot. But the way Atiku is going, it’s like he has the ticket already. But if ADC is serious that they want to give us a run for our money…but I don’t see them as serious people. I see them more just as people that hate President Bola Ahmed Tinubu. Somebody said if El-Rufai was made a minister, he wouldn’t have left APC. So, I see them as a gathering of people who just detest Bola Ahmed Tinubu.

But in all honesty, if Obi gets the ticket and Atiku subsumes his ambition, it will be interesting. And opposition is good, any government democracy that says it no longer wants opposition, that’s a wasted democracy. I will have to be performing to be able to send the message across…that’s democracy.

But your party is being accused of trying to force everybody, including governors, into its fold…

That’s not correct. Recall that what happened to my former party, the PDP, was its failure to give the ticket to someone from the South, just like in my state Delta, the way former governor Okowa handled the primaries. You don’t allow people to buy forms and at the end of the day, you impose people on them. That’s what Wike does differently; he buys one form each, he never allows anyone to go and waste money. Let’s disagree at the level before we buy form, not allowing people to incur expenses and then there won’t be credible primary. If you allow internal democracy in the APC, it’s all a smooth sail. So the PDP was on a self-destruct mission because of the way they handled their activities.

So, most of the governors that are coming in, it is because of what President Bola Ahmed Tinubu has done. I see a man who is sincere, who has seen money. He is not a hungry man. He has seen money, what money will impress him again? Is it a car you are going to buy for him? Those are the things I am saying; it is obvious the man is not interested in stealing and that has helped us a lot in his government. It is those things that have attracted people to APC, nobody is being coerced.

Look at security, there is improvement now, even the United States is now bringing us some materials, which they did not do before. That should tell you that Tinubu knows how to surmount challenges.

With these defections, are there not going to be implosions in the APC?

I agree with you…we will be deceiving ourselves if we say to the contrary. It is not Uhuru yet. It is not fair that you come to man’s house and drive him out. Yes, you join the party and we all become one, but some of our leaders have this domineering spirit. You can imagine my local government, there is one of the people that came in with the PDP, and said he is now the leader of the party. You can imagine how daring? And you think some of us are going to accept it? No way. So, those things have to be corrected. Asiwaju is not also someone that forgets loyalty.

But another thing that may affect the party is the primaries. If they are not done free and fair, you find a lot of people bearing grudges. Internal democracy is the bedrock of the survival of any political party. So, we believe it might not be the same scenario we had in the PDP. Allow people to express themselves; it doesn’t diminish you as a leader. You can have your favourite, but let there be some kind of decorum.

How would you expect the Rivers State crisis to be resolved?

I must call a spade a spade. Governor Fubara was given a structure he never had; he became a governor by the benevolence of Wike. Yes, Wike can be overbearing, but he knows that Wike is overbearing when he accepted those structures. A man who has given you structures, you now want to fight him in your first tenure, you did not pretend, then the consequences is what is happening to you. But Wike should also feel the pulse of his boss, who is the Commander in Chief, because if he continues fighting, he also gives the impression that the man who made you minister is a stupid man.

But Fubara’s ingratitude is legendary, I even told someone that we should use Fubara as a case study in political science. People can also say Wike is suffering because he did the same to Jonathan, well they say Karma is real, but in this particular instance, Fubara has a whole lot to do in ensuring that peace is found in Rivers State. If he actually agreed that he will not run for a second term and he is reneging for a third time, then something has to be done, you cannot be trusted. But it is the common man in Rivers that is suffering.

Can you tell us why you stepped aside from your role as the Consultant on Media and Strategy to the Senate President, Godswill Akpabio?

I had to take care of…it was like you can see, a whole lot of family issues and business. I needed to concentrate more on it. That doesn’t mean I would not play politics. The political season has started. And I am travelling a lot this period to Delta. And that’s going to take a whole lot of my time.

So I also needed time to concentrate on those things. That aside, the working relationship with His Excellency Godswill Akpabio was an excellent one. Of course, we had our ups and downs. But he was someone that I never imagined had one of the greatest sense of humour you can find in a boss. And someone who would take advice. And sometimes, even when he doesn’t take that advice immediately, he eventually comes around. There are very few bosses that can do that. I also learnt a lot from him.

In terms of knowing how to handle issues. Shock absorber, I kept asking him, how do you handle issues? How do you allow these things to get to you? And sometimes he would just laugh. Because then I would get to know that some of those things I was putting pressure on, he absorbed them because he didn’t want to rock the boat.

So the relationship has been…it was quite an experience. Especially having to advise the number three citizen on so many things. Because what people didn’t understand was that I was not only handling communications, I was also handling his strategy, which also had to do with his image making. And like you can see, well, I will use the word, he’s more at peace now. And we believe it will continue.

And he’s been vindicated, I believe.

The Senate under Akpabio, for some people, is the most rubber-stamped National Assembly seen in the nation’s history. What do you say about it?

No, you see, what has gone wrong is, they do not keep abreast, they are not abreast of the facts, they are looking at the optics of the emotions and the, well I’d say, social media, more of rumours and blackmail. They were not abreast of the facts that were on ground. The facts that are valuable, if you ask the senate spokesperson, he will tell you clearly that the 10th Senate has achieved what nobody has achieved within two and a half years.

No other senate has achieved it in the span of two and a half years. And I think I gave all the statistics when I was speaking. If you look at the five commissions, development commissions, from the north-west to the north-central, the south-east, that was a feat.

And those bills that were the babies of the senate, not even the House of Reps. If you also look at the way they handled the tax bill, they were able to get the House of Reps to pass it. If you look at the statistics, when they tell you that 55 bills were signed into law by the president, not passed, but signed into law, and over 96 bills had been passed, I think if you look at the oversight functions too, they were able to whip a lot of the government agencies into line.

Well, his approach is not the traditional approach of being confrontational, and that is why you see it as a rubber stamp. In my own opinion, I will tell you, in my own assessment, they have achieved a lot, in terms of their job description. Because it’s the job description I’m looking at, the duty of a legislator is to make laws and oversight.